Beste bezoeker!

Welkom op de Nederlandse pagina van het SPRINT project. Hier zullen updates en andere informatie geplaatst worden over het onderzoek dat specifiek in Noord-Groningen en Noord-Friesland wordt uitgevoerd. Wageningen Universiteit in samenwerking met het Radboud UMC voeren de werkzaamheden in Noord Nederland uit, samen met plaatstelijke (vee/dieren)artsen.

 

!Deelnemers gezocht! - Radboud Universiteit  Voor het onderzoek naar de kinetiek van bestrijdingsmiddelen worden vrijwilligers gezocht. Als vrijwilliger in ons onderzoek word je blootgesteld aan bestrijdingsmiddelen via een drankje en op de huid, binnen de Acceptable Daily Intake (ADI) - de veilige dagelijkse innamegrens zoals vastgesteld door toonaangevende gezondheidsorganisaties. We zullen vervolgens de uitscheiding van deze stoffen in urine en ontlasting onderzoeken, evenals de reactie van het bloed. Dit om een beter begrip te krijgen van hoe ons lichaam deze stoffen verwerkt en elimineert.  Wil jij bijdragen aan de vooruitgang van wetenschappelijk onderzoek en het begrip vergroten van van hoe bestrijdingsmiddelen worden gemetaboliseerd en uitgescheiden door het menselijk lichaam? Doe dan mee! Deelname aan de studie duurt 2 (werk)weken - Tussen mei en augustus 2024 Tijdens de studie nemen we 1 dag meermaals bloed af (via een infuus) en verzamelen proefpersonen zelf hun urine (de eerste 24 uur alles, de rest van de week alleen ochtendurine, en alle ontlasting tijdens deze week) 2x een maandag aanwezig op de Radboud Universiteit van de ochtend (~08.30) tot de avond (~18.30/19u) 2x een dinsdag terugkomen in de ochtend (tussen 08:00 en 12:00, in overleg) voor een enkele bloedafname  de rest van de week vangen ze thuis hun ochtendurine + alle ontlasting op

• Op de maandagen worden de proefpersonen 1x oraal blootgesteld en 1x dermaal blootgesteld aan een dosis glyfosaat onder de ADI

• Tijdens de studie volgen de proefpersonen een biologisch dieet

• Er is een vergoeding voor de reiskosten en een 150eu VVV-bon

• De opgevangen ochtendurine en ontlasting kan worden ingeleverd in Nijmegen of Wageningen.

Enthousiast geworden? Mail naar This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. met je naam en contactgegevens*. 

*SPRINT werkt volgens de AVG om ervoor te zorgen dat het risico dat iemand in de gegevens wordt geïdentificeerd verwaarloosbaar is. Wij slaan geen gegevens op buiten de Europese Economische Ruimte die geen gelijkwaardig sterke gegevensbeschermingsnormen hebben. Deelnemers aan de SPRINT-studie zullen gedetailleerde informatie ontvangen over hoe hun persoonsgegevens door pseudonimisering zullen worden beschermd. 

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!Deelnemers gezocht! - GESLOTEN er zijn voldoende deelnemers Wageningen Universiteit doet onderzoek naar de verspreiding en het effect van pesticiden op mens, dier en milieu. Hiervoor zijn wij opzoek naar enthousiaste deelnemers die in Wageningen wonen. Eet jij veel biologisch? Of juist niet zo heel veel? En ben je beschikbaar begin januari? Dan zoeken we jou Je ontvang 25 euro (vvv bon) voor een volledige deelname en hiervoor vragen wij de volgende monsters: 24h voedsel monster en een 36h urine monster. Elke deelnemer ontvangt zijn/haar individuele resultaten. Voor het onderzoek zullen gegevens worden geanonimiseerd. Enthousiast geworden? Mail naar This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. met je naam, adres en telefoonnummer*.  *SPRINT werkt volgens de AVG om ervoor te zorgen dat het risico dat iemand in de gegevens wordt geïdentificeerd verwaarloosbaar is. Wij slaan geen gegevens op buiten de Europese Economische Ruimte die geen gelijkwaardig sterke gegevensbeschermingsnormen hebben. Deelnemers aan de SPRINT-studie zullen gedetailleerde informatie ontvangen over hoe hun persoonsgegevens door pseudonimisering zullen worden beschermd.

Wij zoeken deelnemers in Wageningen en Omgeving!

 Kort over het SPRINT project:  

In de landbouw worden gewasbeschermingsmiddelen toegepast voor een hoge opbrengst en het voorkomen van ziekten. Sommige gewasbeschermingsmiddelen zouden schadelijk kunnen zijn voor mens en milieu. Dit onderzoek is gericht op gezondheid van agrariërs, omwonenden en consumenten. Er is op dit moment weinig bekend over de blootstelling van deze groepen aan gewasbeschermingsmiddelen. In dit project worden deze gegevens verzameld en wordt nagegaan of de gevonden blootstelling kan leiden tot nadelige effecten op mens en milieu. Dit onderzoek draagt daarmee bij aan de verduurzaming van het gebruik van gewasbeschermingsmiddelen en de agrarische sector. 

Dit onderzoek is opgezet door de Wageningen Universiteit (WUR) en wordt uitgevoerd in samenwerking met onderzoekers van het Radboudumc. Voor dit onderzoek zijn 792 deelnemers uit verschillende landen nodig. In Noord-Nederland zullen naar verwachting 72 personen meedoen (Boeren, buren en consumenten).

Nieuwschierig geworden of interesse bij te dragen aan het SPRINT project? Meer informatie over het project vindt u door te klikken op de uitnodiging of de brochure. Voor vragen staan wij ook altijd open, deze kunnen gesteld worden door te mailen naar This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. (let op: deelnemen aan de veldcampagne als agrariër kan niet meer omdat dit onderdeel in 2021 is afgerond)

 

Uitnodiging voor deelnemers (boeren, buren, consumenten) Noord Groningen en Noord Friesland	Algemene informatie

 

Recording_LvO.m4a

Interviewer [00:00:00] Yes, well then the recording is hereby started. Janneke, thank you for letting us come here. Can you briefly tell us what your initiative, your success initiative, is all about?

Interviewee [00:00:17] Yes, we are a cooperative, “Land van Ons” (English: Our Land) a citizen cooperative that works with participants. It's also very successful in the sense that we already have over 26,000 participants, since the original founder started in 2019. So it's growing fast. There are also people who are putting in quite a lot of money. The threshold itself is low,, because right now membership is €20 and you get a square meter of land with that, so to speak. With that money we buy farmland and lease it to organic farmers. And together with those farmers we devise a plan to use that piece of land as agricultural land, but to make it more bio diverse. Depending on the type of farming, that can be with herb-rich grassland or with flower strips, or with strip farming, or with planting hedges or making a sloping ditch, so that more biodiversity is created there. There are numerous measures the hedges, trees, etc. We do things like that. That is mainly to promote biodiversity in agricultural areas. That's our goal. And of course that only works if you can purchase quite a bit. So yes, the first challenge is to get enough participants and enough money.

Interviewer [00:02:03] Yes, exactly.

Speaker 3 [00:02:04] And how is it mainly word of mouth or do you have recruitment campaigns?

Interviewee [00:02:10] There were a few articles in the beginning, including in NRC and Volkskrant. Trouw I believe as well. Many people responded to those. We also had some people put in quite a bit of money in the beginning. Okay, But now we have a larger structure with a few hundred volunteers. We also do bring in grants to keep things afloat. Yes, but with those subsidies we do things like marketing to get the ICT in order. After all, we do a lot online. You can also sign up online as a participant in land purchases, right?

Interviewer [00:02:54] Yes, exactly.

Interviewee [00:02:55] Yes. But anyway, Person X, who then deals with buying land and again somebody deals with making sure a good farmer at wanted.

Interviewer [00:03:04] Sometimes he's there.

Interviewee [00:03:05] Yes, but sometimes in the area you still have to look for a good organic farmer or a farmer who wants to become organic and for that reason, for example, wants to extensively much.

Interviewer [00:03:15] needs more land.

Interviewee [00:03:16] Yes, so all those kinds of things. It's become a very vibrant farm, mainly through volunteers.

Interviewer [00:03:21] Yes exactly, because when the founder founded it in 2019, that was actually super recent. Was that the main goal to promote biodiversity in the Netherlands?

Interviewee [00:03:34] Oh yeah, and then specifically on farmland.

Interviewee [00:03:39] Promote biodiversity on farmland? Yes, and restoration of t landscape? Then you do that right away often, don't you?

Interviewee [00:03:48] Yes, Restoring the landscape What this does. Holland is the landscape. Very barren impression. from World War II onwards, everything was removed that did not seem of immediate use. Which only later people realized that it was of use after all.

Interviewee [00:04:07] Well that, that's actually our goal and we're still working very hard on that. So a good one as well still. Is always a challenge to keep growing because at some point the novelty wears off.

Interviewer [00:04:20] Yes. When did you guys succeed? I would imagine that when you guys were founded, that the founders then thought of gosh, this is really our ultimate goal, this is what we really want to work towards. Has that been achieved yet?

Interviewee [00:04:38] Oh no. Initially the goal was to get 300,000 acres, nature-inclusive farmland.

Interviewer [00:04:46] Okay.

Interviewee [00:04:48] But I think that was between the by the founder was extremely optimistic when you consider how many billion that's going to cost to get an acre of good or an acre of farmland. That cost somewhere between 70 and €140,000.

Interviewee [00:05:13] The background is that you actually do need so about that or maybe even more to save the say the biodiversity in the Netherlands. because most of the loss of biodiversity takes place in the countryside, on the farmland, because of course that's changed rock hard. Since the Second World War. With the clearance of all those landscape elements. With pesticides and loads of fertilizers, et cetera.

Interviewer [00:05:46] Yes. And do you think that the people who are affiliated with you think the same way? That that's why it makes that so successful?

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Interviewee [00:05:54] Yes, I do think so, because they did have one meeting and then the goal of biodiversity is very high on the agenda. Yes, actually number one.

Interviewer [00:06:05] And what are the other than the other things?

Interviewee [00:06:08] And also other things that people think about is the climate problem. eg but in a good organic way Farmers that yes, that that that can make a very important contribution to that.

Interviewee [00:06:24] Now it is true that most agriculture actually emits a lot of CO2, but it can also be the other way around. Permanent grassland, for example, absorbs a lot of CO2. If you let that graze a little sparingly now, that's very good for climate, so that's an important one. But there are also people very much engaged in the protein transition.

Interviewer [00:06:46] Oh yes.

Interviewee [00:06:47] But also people who are very much for animal welfare et cetera. So yes, generally nature-inclusive and organic farming that brings That knife cuts on a lot of sides.

Interviewer [00:06:58] Well, you were also just talking about the different techniques that you use. Strip farming what is this based on. Because I can imagine that when you buy a piece of land that you all start making a plan of gosh yes this is what we want to grow on this or how is it going to eat? We are of course ourselves.

Interviewee [00:07:20] we do have quite a lot of farmers among our members. But most of them are citizens who don't know anything about it and so you have to have good farmers who want to think along with you about how do I make it more biodiverse here and there can also be a farmer among them who says I'd like to cooperate on hedges and so on making pieces of land available. Yes, but strip cultivation just doesn't fit in with my business. Or with my machinery or whatever. In a few cases we work with a contractor, so are like the farmer himself who decides what is done.

Interviewee [00:08:04] But usually we leave the agricultural side as much as possible to the farmer's responsibility. Yes and the extras, which we do in consultation with the farmers who come and say yes this or that can't be done. Yes this and that is possible, but then together you make a kind of plan.

Interviewer [00:08:21] Do you then have external advisors there if you plan as well.

Interviewee [00:08:25] Mainly internal advisors.

Speaker 3 [00:08:31] And then after a number of years is there some kind of feedback or something like that, for example?

Interviewer [00:08:35] Yes, we also created a monitoring plan. That's still kind of in the initial stage. It's quite a lot of work on all the plots and at each plot we have bought we also have a local team and they then make that design in consultation with the farmer or how that can become more biodiverse well yes, but they are then going to monitor the biodiversity.

Interviewer [00:09:02] Yes okay. And how do you guys do that? For example?

Interviewee [00:09:05] Well, the most elaborate form is like the nature associations do, FLORON and I don't know what all. But we have kind of a simple derivative of that. Which just counts the number of butterflies.

Speaker 3 [00:09:24] Especially above-ground biodiversity.

Interviewee [00:09:26] We have a sample determined by Eurofins. That's one of those companies.

Interviewee [00:09:33] And we count earthworms ourselves. So, you can do that as well. You can just count just the number, or also the color, such as gray, etc.

Interviewee [00:09:46] So we try to collect that. Because biodiversity increase can also be very slow, especially in the soil. And we do want to report every once in a while then. You can always mention nice little successes, but a real in-depth analysis of the whole thing is missing.

Interviewer [00:10:07] yeah yeah.

Interviewee [00:10:08] We're still digesting now on the somewhat smaller successes.

Interviewer [00:10:38] No. Yes, yes. Okay. And the sales market? How is that?

Interviewee [00:10:45] So largely that's the it's the responsibility of the farmer and the entrepreneur. But because it's also nice for our members and also nice as recruitment material, we do order things from our farmers.

Interviewee [00:11:06] And right now we have leased all of our plots. If you don't lease it but work with a contractor, then of course it's also easier to experiment a little bit. Yes, yes, but we also do that kind of thing. So we participated in the reintroduction of buckwheat from the Netherlands. We are introducing hutentut a kind of oil, very nice fancy oil.

Interviewer [00:11:34] Never heard of it. Very nice.

Interviewee [00:12:06] And we have now also developed a soap ourselves.

Interviewer [00:12:09] Oh how nice.

Interviewee [00:12:10] That didn't quite work out having all the ingredients come all the way from the Netherlands. There's still olive oil in the soap, but you don't see, for example, palm is not from outside Europe. Is version one for zero. We are going to produce another all-Dutch soap soon.

Interviewer [00:12:28] Oh how nice!

Interviewee [00:12:30] Yes, people also like that as a gift.

Interviewer [00:12:32] Yes definitely yes. Yes, I sometimes come to you farmers who then say yes, we really can't find a market at all, help us! Are you then also to therefore to help them?

Interviewee [00:12:42] Or sometimes a little bit? But yes, we have to be able to do that through our webshop. And we don't have a store. But there are some stores in Holland or farm stores that we work with and then they put our stuff in their store.

Interviewer [00:12:59] Big supermarkets for example, like the Albert Heijn.

Interviewee [00:13:02] I don't think we have a big one in there yet, but there is also a group. Those farmers themselves are also working on that, of course, hey.

Interviewer [00:13:09] Yes, they are entrepreneurs.

Interviewee [00:13:11] Yes so we are not farmers.

Interviewer [00:13:13] No.

Interviewee [00:13:14] But we can collaborate or lend a hand sometimes. Or try something new and crazy. Like that gold-of-pleasure oil and the soap.

Interviewer [00:13:27] Oh yes, yes, yes, yes, what fun! Yes, yes, that's very nice. Yes, but you guys would be on your own then. And you farmers would be open to working with the big supermarkets as well. Or rather not.

Interviewee [00:13:40] Well, they're all different people. There are huge big farmers among them with huge farms. Yes who just cooperate with Friesland Campina or with supermarkets. we also have a farmer, who has a very large arable farm himself. In Zeeland, he has his own large customer base and webshop and he sells things. Oh yes, because of course in Zeeland in the countryside you don't have so many organic stores. So no. He organized that himself.

Interviewee [00:14:18] Everything occurs.

Interviewer [00:14:19] Yes, very nice yes.

Interviewee [00:14:22] But unfortunately, the Netherlands is one of the least biologically oriented countries in Europe.

Speaker 3 [00:14:40] But yes, the prices are also incredibility high.

Interviewee [00:14:42] That's really a problem of course.

Interviewer [00:14:45] Yes. And why do you think that is so low in the Netherlands?

Interviewee [00:14:48] Well, I think the Dutch are just not that interested in food very much. They're just a bit of a barbarian of the kilo-catchers. Italians are much less wealthy than we are on average, but they buy a lot more. Those Austrians too, they have a very high percentage and the Netherlands doesn't do much about it either, including the Dutch government. Well, when you read all those plans you think guys guys, it's not going to progress like that.

Interviewer [00:15:19] Yes, a little bit.

Speaker 3 [00:15:20] For the stage.

Interviewee [00:15:21] Yeah. You know what? Advertising, advertising, noncommittal advertising. But really a hard statement that it's better to eat organic and healthier. And that pesticides are the surely serious evidence that that's caused nervous disease. Or just do VAT down on organic food. So the Dutch government just really has no enthusiasm for that. So of course that's in there too. Big industry is behind it. But they just don't believe in it. Even Wageningen UR didn't believe in it for a very long time. The atmosphere is changing a bit, but they just calculate it anyway.  The nitrogen tax per kilogram of product? And then organic farming lays it off in that sense.

Speaker 3 [00:16:24] That report is cited so often.

Interviewee [00:16:25] That gets cited very often. So, all those stories I know too. Well. So that's the world we're in.

Interviewer [00:16:34] Yes.

Interviewee [00:16:35] And I think in that sense that yes, our members, there are basically many more than we have now, but that there are a lot of people. Who do care about the ecology of the countryside and who are also heartbroken when they see what a barren mess it becomes then.

Interviewer [00:16:55] Yes.

Interviewee [00:16:56] Yes, and who often also organic food important.

Interviewer [00:16:59] Find yes or.

Interviewee [00:17:00] Being vegetarian or being vegan. Of course, that's relatively common among our members.

Interviewer [00:17:09] Yes.

Interviewee [00:17:11] And yet we also just have people who love meat. That all occurs as well.

Interviewer [00:17:15] Yes yes, without a very big mix of people. Yeah. We talked about the government that does too little. Do you guys ever give feedback? As a “Land van Ons” and the government for example? Do you guys interact with that or not at all?

Interviewee [00:17:32] We did try once to present ourselves at LNV and see if something was possible. What now? Our very biggest challenge is always money. Yes, if you want to grow, you need money. But that didn't really yield much. And now we do have as a client of ours along with three other, say initiatives of more or less the same nature that are also purchasing land. And we organized a couple of workshops with experts and made some suggestions on how to get access to land. For everybody. Often a lot of farmers, but especially sustainable farmers who really want to.

Interviewer [00:18:20] Yes.

Interviewee [00:18:21] How to improve those. Because farmer has two problems a land is expensive and food is cheap. But land is really not affordable for farmers now. They are also always so interested when we buy something. Even before we have bought it come, the emails sometimes pour in. Oh yes, hello, I do want to rent this from you.

Interviewer [00:18:49] Yes, yes, but you would think there would be so much enthusiasm for it as well. You guys have gotten so big in the last few years. Yes, that certainly LNV would also have an interest in it. How did it fail last time? Where did it backfire?

Interviewee [00:19:03] Well often on the laws and regulations and, that one just doesn't get anything done at all. You can't give money to a cooperative. But you can't actually borrow it either.

Interviewee [00:19:20] Unless you yourself through another agency and then with a hefty interest rate on it can't actually pay me, because look our members if you put in a ton with us, so that's also still a serious impediment for us and that's what we're trying to do together with those other ones right now to do something about that as well.

Interviewee [00:19:40] along with "BD landbeheer” and “Aardpeer”, we've written a couple of notes with that. We submitted those to the ministries, went to talk, we're now working on politics etc. Well, one of the things that is very tricky, then, is that if you put in a ton in a “Land van Ons” and there are people who do that, then you have to report that under other investments. Then they assume that you make a 6% profit on that. Yes, that is not the case with us, because you actually make no or minuscule profits from it. And meanwhile, inflation goes on. So the longer you leave that ton sitting there peacefully in that cooperative, the less you are left with.

Interviewee [00:20:29] Yes, that kind of thing just makes it pretty difficult for initiatives like ours as well. To attract big money there will be a lot of people who are sympathetic and think oh, well, if I can put that in. Yes, and it does the same thing as savings, for example. Savings are also taxed much less in box three. And you keep net inflation. Yeah, then t's all good as far as I'm concerned.

Interviewee [00:21:00] But yeah, so that's not the case with us, because we're sitting there with that stupid box3 of the taxsystem.  So the whole formula of you have a cooperative that's basically also a charity. But then not working with donations, but with deposits of money that you know you can ask for back at some point when you need something. Yeah, the government can't handle that.

Interviewer [00:21:26] No.

Interviewee [00:21:26] Our tax system is not set up for that. There are an awful lot of ways you could make it easier for organizations, in order to grow faster. And indeed also at LNV the person we spoke to at the time said, we would be crazy not to support you, because you are doing exactly what we want.

Interviewer [00:21:52] Yes.

Interviewee [00:21:54] Yet I never hear back from them.

Interviewer [00:22:06]. Are those your members' concerns as well? You guys obviously have an awful lot of members, an awful lot of people involved.

Interviewee [00:22:16] Well, so we have for. We keep as a species so all detailed. I don't know for you guys. Important though is a certain. When somebody gets out again a certain formula. What you got then and that pretty much included the land price increase. So you still get back about the same as what you had put in. But we decided as directors we're not going to, because we're not going to sell those things. So you can put that price increase on the balance sheet and in the accounts, but you don't have that money in your hands. So you can't give it back to either. And we're having a discussion with the members about that now. We suggested we take that off, but so then we got a lot of members who did sift for it. See quite a bit of savings from me anyway.

Speaker 3 [00:23:13] Yes, that is a hassle.

Interviewee [00:23:15] Yeah, we're working on that right now. So actually a lot of our members would not care. Do they get the €100 in! Then you think well, all measures.

Interviewer [00:23:25] Yes.

Interviewee [00:23:26] Or the €80 back again. Yes.

Interviewer [00:23:29] Exactly yes.

Speaker 3 [00:23:30] But that was about large sums of money. Yes, then that's different.

Interviewee [00:23:34] So we have to dive into that now as well. Can we get a return on anything? Because obviously you don't want to sell your land. Lost again for biodiversity.

Interviewer [00:23:48] Yes indeed, then it is also immediately the biggest problem you run into. So actually from the fact that you guys have money concerns or that it.

Interviewee [00:23:58] Yes, well, money worries. We're so forthcoming, we're more solid as a bank. Yeah, no, that kind of Triodos drama doesn't have to happen to us, because if members are really going to defect, we can sell that land. Yes, there is a real counter value. against it, so you can basically you can just give your members what they want.

Interviewer [00:24:20] Yes.

Interviewee [00:24:21] But can we still do that even if we don't sell land? Well we're breaking our heads about that right now.

Interviewee [00:24:28] The within bringing in capital under a good formula. that's actually the challenge to grow further. Yes and for the rest we have all kinds of little challenges of getting things organized properly and the good lease contracts.

Interviewer [00:24:48] And yes, which ones.

Interviewee [00:24:49] Land do you buy and don't you buy? somewhere it doesn't work out to form such a local team or there's a farmer who says I want to get rid of it, but has no other do. All that kind of thing that every organization has.

Interviewer [00:25:04] Yes, exactly. Because , what would you guys need to facilitate bringing in the capital? Who are needed for that, for example?

Interviewee [00:25:14] well we need to have that so another tax system. That won't save all of the Netherlands. But no, because from us you would benefit enormously as our kind of organization. And for the rest I think in itself also have a lot of small members. Also very important, because that says something about the support your organization gives huh?

Interviewer [00:26:03] Yes, definitely.

Interviewee [00:26:04] So when I tell people we have about 300 acres and 26,000 members they say 26,000 and that 300 acres that yes that is just a snippet of course anyway.

Interviewer [00:26:19]  Yes. And in the future there are other problems that you can run into with the initiative. For example, if we look at Dutch politics now, for example. And the elections.

Interviewee [00:26:36] That, of course, is a big concern.

Interviewer [00:26:39] Yes.

Interviewee [00:26:39] You can still think that in the previous political constellation you could still get some sympathy.

Interviewer [00:26:46] Yes.

Interviewee [00:26:47] I think that becomes more difficult now. Look, some people got the impression that I had heard from somebody at BBB or something. That we're kind of competing with the farmer and that's definitely not the case. No, in fact, there are farmers on our waiting list. Yes, who would love us to buy a whole farm. So for example not from a farming family or that business, that does not fit in that would love to run a business of ours. Yeah, hire as a tenant?

Interviewer [00:27:27] Yes.

Interviewee [00:27:29] we can only run so much. If we have money, it goes up and down. It's still going well, we always buy up about six more plots or so.

Interviewer [00:27:43] So there's going to be more.

Interviewee [00:27:45] Every year we do add some.

Interviewer [00:27:46] Yes, but do you think with the future administration that that's going to be less?

Interviewee [00:27:55] Well, we don't depend on that at all. We've gotten a few funds, but no funds from the government I think for the foundation. And some other things, but we're not dependent on the government.

Interviewer [00:28:11] So that makes a difference.

Interviewee [00:28:14] Indeed, we are. In that sense, we are just a party in the market that also buys land.

Interviewer [00:28:18] Yes, yes. So are there other challenges that you think well, maybe in the future this can be done?

Interviewee [00:28:30] Well, we were a startup weren't we? And we're gradually going to get to a bigger size now. Then you have to go to a a scale up. Yeah, then you actually have to get your organization right as well. Some things you may have to, those have become too big for us. I myself think for example in that whole situation around leases, contracts et cetera is a legally quite complex. Yes, we now have to start writing that ourselves rather than outsourcing that contract. So also in terms of organization we have gone from phase one to phase two. Yes, that will also be quite a challenge to get that right.

Interviewer [00:29:13] Yes, organizationally, but also financially.

Interviewee [00:29:19] We have incredibly good volunteers. Really, too, who keep it up for years. But yes, of course you also have regular outflow and then you have to find a new one again. So new impressions. So people really like the fact that it is such a volunteer organization. That is why we are so cheap. But yes, it does cost something.

Interviewer [00:29:43] Yes, absolutely.

Interviewee [00:29:44] Yes, effort to keep everyone up to speed again and to find new people regularly.

Interviewer [00:29:50]  You guys would still just want to expand, even within the Netherlands.

Interviewee [00:29:58] Yes, we now have one or more plots in all provinces. But we still miss a little bit the corner of South East Brabant and we miss Limburg. That corner, we are hunting for that now too. We have what we want. Actually, we do have a bit of a goal. Every Dutchman should be within cycling distance of land from us.

Interviewer [00:30:59] Would you guys also possibly want to expand abroad? Do you think it's at all possible?

Interviewee [00:31:11] I think there are somewhat similar things in in Germany I'm very jealous of, because there the land is much cheaper.

Interviewer [00:31:19] Yes yes.

Interviewee [00:31:20] Much less money as us, but much more hectares.

Speaker 3 [00:31:22] Yes, yes, but also a bigger land of course.

Interviewee [00:31:26] Yes, but yes. The land there is real. The Netherlands doesn't have a land policy. Yes, most other countries have something to ensure that agricultural land is not arbitrarily taken away from agriculture by one or the other. So there is quite a lot of speculation in land in the Netherlands I would say. A wealthy person thinks, I'll buy this piece of real estate is fairly close to one eaten from urbanized area. Will this soon become land for housing development? Then I have a huge profit. Yes okay, in the Netherlands and in other countries, for example in France, I think you. Buy that agricultural land only if you can prove or so that there is serious farming there again.

Speaker 3 [00:32:16] Yes or yes. I know in Norway at least that's the policy.

Interviewee [00:32:21] Yes, but in many countries they do that. The Netherlands just abolished all land policy. So yes, any nitwit can just buy a piece of farmland if he has money. Any steering they had they practically abandoned. So provinces still have quite a bit of power to designate agricultural land. But that doesn't mean that whoever buys it then has to actually do something.

Interviewer [00:32:58] No, no, no, that's a good point indeed.

Interviewee [00:33:25] That land price, it just keeps going up too.

Interviewer [00:33:35] Have you talked to the initiative in Germany, for example?

Interviewee [00:33:40] Yes, one of us went there extensively and reported on that. And so then I became very jealous.

Interviewer [00:33:49] Yes, but it's not that you might want to work together or exchange ideas on a regular basis.

Interviewee [00:33:56] Yes, we already have so many ideas here in the Netherlands and also from people we are bombarded with suggestions and ideas and all nice ideas.

Interviewer [00:34:07] Yes exactly yes.

Interviewee [00:34:08] So that's maybe all going to come in the future. But we're mostly busy with ourselves right now.

Interviewer [00:34:25] But what are you guys doing now to involve Limburg? Are you guys there as well?

Interviewee [00:34:28] We have a team that look on all the real estate agent sites and on funda and they also visit companies if there is something interesting that is for sale there. But often they also sell privately.

Interviewer [00:34:45] Yes exactly.

Interviewee [00:34:46] We go all over the Netherlands hunting for a good piece of land.

Speaker 3 [00:35:23] And is the founder still working?

Interviewee [00:35:26] The founder retired just this fall of '23. Who has started something new again. Is a little more radical and political oriented. So not an actually “Land van Ons”. More is more of a do club, right?

Interviewee [00:35:43] We generally don't get so involved in politics and lobbying and stances. While we do bear the brunt of politics.

Interviewee [00:36:16] We're hardly members or affiliates of anything. No, because then you have to get back into all kinds of talking circuits etc. No, with the 'Groenboeren’ we are affiliated with that other 'Groenboeren’ plan.

Interviewee [00:36:34] There's so much in there. And so with that I discovered let's get together with the landowners. Still trying to see something around. Access to good land. Especially the young farmers and the farmers with whom they enter. Those often come up with the best plans. Look, when you're 65, you're not so quick to start something new. And you don't sell either, because then you really get punished by taxes. So they stick to the old stuff.

Interviewer [00:37:27] Yes, yes. So that's where according to you – lies the actual key.

Interviewee [00:37:33] I think. Having ownership of land, at least that's the key. We own it. Then you can also make demands. Yeah right, to the farmers?

And then you just look for the farmers who love to meet that.

Interviewer [00:37:48] Yes, which of course there are in abundance.

Interviewee [00:37:52] Those abound. Yes, there are plenty of those.

Interviewee [00:37:55] But most of them who just don't have land and no business. Those would love to. The government should do something about that too. The government has an infinite amount of capital, so they will. We ventilated ideas about that towards government as well.

Speaker 3 [00:38:20] Somewhere at the beginning of the conversation it was also briefly about marketing and then you guys don't do so much with it, I understood.

Interviewee [00:38:32] Except for what we drop off ourselves.

Speaker 3 [00:38:33] Yes, exactly. Except you drop yourself off. But then I still wondered suppose indeed that organic market is not growing, and you guys are still buying more land and more organic farmers. Doesn't that backfire at some point.

Interviewee [00:38:51] Then at some point it would run aground. But look, with those 300 acres of ours huh?

Interviewer [00:38:57] No, that is true.

Interviewee [00:38:58] You might have to pull harder on that that part. That

we try, don't we? I mean in our communications we have a newsletter etc. obviously make very regular through those channels. Advertising for organic farming and for organic food. We have webinars. Once there was a, a female professor from WUR. Who told them about the effect of pesticides on health. What is known about it.

Interviewee [00:39:38]  Well, so we're doing all kinds of things about it. But yes, of course, that's just a circle of 26,000 people many of whom are already convinced.

Interviewer [00:39:47] Yes, yes exactly.

Speaker 3 [00:39:49] It's so special.

Interviewer [00:39:52] But have you ever thought about it then? Because should you guys grow, that you really need to think about that, about that outlet. Have you ever talked about it or brainstormed about it within the “Land van Ons” or not really yet?

Interviewee [00:40:07] Well, incidentally we have. There are people who come up with this topic in conversation with a farmer, for example. Because that farmer who says I'm not going to switch to Skal, a lot of red tape and what does it provide? Etc. etc. But for now that hasn't become a dominant theme.

Interviewer [00:40:28] No, Okay.

Interviewee [00:40:29] No. But in "de Groene Sprong” by the way, that's Frank's new initiative.

Interviewer [00:40:34] Okay, de Groene Sprong?

Interviewee [00:40:36] Yes.  if we couldn't find farmers on our terms it's immediately a problem. But that doesn't occur at all. But so even the farmers themselves still see plenty of opportunities.

Interviewer [00:40:55] what do you think that other people or other initiatives can learn from your initiative?

Interviewee [00:41:11] What could they learn from us? What I personally found to be a revelation is how incredible much is just in the in the population. But that whole organization with volunteers and that ranges from professors to people who especially want to work with hands. Bookkeepers, financial experts, stewards. You can still accomplish an awful lot with volunteers. I myself find that very encouraging. That time and again we manage to find all kinds of people. People who understand. Computer security and so on. Everything comes along. Yes, just put a vacancy in our newsletter and then someone reports back.

Interviewer [00:42:21] Nice! Yeah, yeah.

Interviewee [00:42:24] So yeah, that's. I think that's very special. So someone who has a crazy idea like the like who knows how to put that out well? That helps, Frank said, was very good at that. The founder is very good at performing for the stage. Yes. That's where people went.

Interviewee [00:42:41] That one, because he was also sick last year. Also when that one stopped acting and I acted mostly as acting chairman. Yeah, didn't the members keep pouring in? Yes, and the volunteers kept pouring in.

Interviewer [00:43:51] Do you want to say anything else?

Speaker 3 [00:43:54] A tip or indeed something that you experience yes, that they can move forward with.

Interviewee [00:44:03] I believe I have said everything. And should we have to tell somewhere in your area about a "Land van Ons”, or explain this in more detail. I don't know what do we do in English or in Dutch or in I guess any language? We always like to do that. Yes, we are very much into name recognition.

Interviewer [00:44:40]. Very nice. We'll definitely keep you guys well in the back of our minds as well. And of course it was also on the phone with you about had. So February 14, we have a symposium. Yes, it's taking place in Leeuwarden, Campus Fryslan. That's an annex of the RUG,

Interviewee [00:45:03] In what?

Interviewer [00:45:07] which will take place in the morning, so in which we are also going to cover the results of sprint and especially sprint in the Netherlands. Um. And in the afternoon there is also a transition workshop in which we have also invited stakeholders across the spectrum to think about. For example, very organic, but also people who are very, very critical of that. Do we want to brainstorm in smaller groups about what we should do, what is needed to enter the transition and what different paths we can take to make it more sustainable? In short you are cordially invited to both.

Interviewee [00:46:56] That might be a useful contribution there to talk about that during the workshop or I don't know what. Yes, because there are a lot of concrete ideas there. Those are very concrete starting points, also for the provincial government, to deal with this problem. In a non-confrontational way. So not burdened with buyouts or forced this or that. Just create opportunities for the newcomers that make it all a bit more feasible in terms of taxation. Because after all, if you give very little land mobility along with that all those old farmers just stay on the land and. have to deal with your taxes, then they won't stop and then there won't be any land released for newcomers.

Interviewer [00:47:52] Yes exactly yes.

Interviewee [00:47:54] Those kind of ideas that. And I feel that. Many government officials still don't see it as an alternative route to get things going.

Interviewer [00:48:06] Yes, If you or any of the members are aware of this, please.

Interviewee [00:48:19] Yes and we do have those. I'm not an expert on this. W.v.Z is the expert on this.

Speaker 3 [00:48:33] Yes, I do know him.

Interviewee [00:48:41] Yes, steward MdK. Who was steward and board member of Meadowlands Management. Oh yeah, also had fine story, so a real expert. I can send you some too, but I can't find it so fast I guess. But we wrote two notes on that.

Interviewer [00:49:15] Yes please.

Interviewee [00:49:16] An alternative for the government to make a big transition by purchasing land itself and making it available again under conditions.

Interviewee [00:49:30] And that other is more like a potpourri of measures that would all contribute to making good farmland available to newcomers and people who want something sustainable on it.

Interviewee [00:49:46] That one of these two folks and also quite a bit of LvS from Aardpeer, who used to be a banker. I don't know what corner you want to look for them in, but that one would be excellent at that as well. Yes, all three know this much better than I do. Yeah, I'm better at talking about Land van Ons.

Interviewer [00:50:03] Then could you maybe send the contact information of these people to me? Or perhaps you would like you to contact them yourself first? Thank you in any case for this conversation.